Saint Paul, the Bacchic Heroes, and Tarantism

Or as Paul explicitly tells us, in order to make converts he adapted himself rhetorically:

“I have become all things to all people…”

Whatever one thinks of that statement theologically, it demonstrates a remarkable awareness of audience and communication.

18 thoughts on “Saint Paul, the Bacchic Heroes, and Tarantism

    1. I think that’s bullshit. There’s less evidence proving Sokrates existed than Paul or Jesus, yet how many scholars doubt Sokrates lived? Or Empedokles, where you’ve got even less than Sokrates? They just have a problem with the teachings of Jesus and Paul, or how people use their teachings.

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      1. yeah, that is bullshit. and i work with bible scholars..not anything any of them are saying in my neck of the woods.

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    1. I did bounce around a bit, and included less explanation because I’d already done that in the pieces I linked to. Where did things go off the tracks for you?

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      1. I think my brain is wonky. I do have problem with bouncing around. I am trying to understand how you fill in your jigsaw puzzle for the tradition. The methods involved. I think that it is important in recreating our religions.

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        1. I do have a tendency to bounce around and use odd verbiage and talk over many of my readers. Which is fine with some things, but when I’m discussing important things like gap-filling I need to be clearer and more careful with my style.

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          1. Please keep explaining things at your level. It’s a good exercise for “the little grey cells” to parse out what is being communicated. You’ve always been good with rewinding to explain in simpler terms when asked to.

            Concerning Paul – it sounds like he’d qualify as a Trickster. He was able to enter places that were not meant for him and was able to encourage change that would not have happened without his entry and action.

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            1. Oh, my Gods. Have you read the Paul and Thecla literature? He’s 100% a trickster figure. He shows up, awakens Thecla from her dreary life as a pampered wealthy daughter, and instead of running off with her, but poofs away as her parents show up and finds them in the nearby forest. They have a conversation, then Thecla gets poofed away. She goes on some adventures, which she either figures out through her own cleverness, or else Paul shows up like a deus ex machina and then poofs her away again. This pattern repeats a couple times, until the mercenaries Thecla’s parents hired catch up with her. She’s interrogated, tortured, and interrogated some more, and then it’s decided to just kill the stubborn girl. Paul is in the audience, and carries her soul away when she finally dies, transporting her to heaven where she immediately becomes a Saint.

              My recollection may be a bit off since it’s been about 2 decades since I read the text. But Paul and Thecla literature was so popular in antiquity (especially in North Africa and the Churches of the Levant and Asia) that it almost made it into the canon. Some in the West, however, didn’t like the portrayal of Paul which is more trickstery than classically heroic. The rest of the Churches were like, “Fine. Fuck you. We’ll just read it on our own and worsjip Thecla” and sure enough she became one of, if not the most popular Saint in the East, where she performed a ton of healing and other miracles.

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              1. No, I am totally unfamiliar with Paul and Thecla. If you recall the titles, please post them.

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                1. I searched Amazon.com for Saint Paul and Saint Thecla and found several books in print. If there is a title or author you recomment, please let me know.

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                  1. The Wikipedia article I linked to is a decent introduction:

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Paul_and_Thecla

                    Here’s a translation of the text:

                    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0816.htm

                    Here’s something from the Church of Saint Thecla:

                    https://stthecla.com/about-us/saint-thecla/

                    There’s a ton of sites by feminists and biblical skeptics, but I can’t stand to skim them to see if they contain any decent information along with the inevitable invective. I’d search on Academia.edu if you want to see what the scholars have to say, and only afterwards consider purchasing any books.

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                    1. ignore the feminist crap. …i’d buy Jeremy Barrier’s translation. it’s becoming an academic standard.

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              2. it’s been awhile sinceI read it, but Paul exits early on. Thekla goes around as a miracle worker until she disappears into a mountain ora stone, escaping men who want to rape her. she is bad ass. you don’t hear her voice until chapter ten or somethingo the story, but once she takes a stand, she carries it through and Paul is very much an instigator and then gone…even refuses to baptise her so shedoes it herself.

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            1. No, I love it! Keep ’em coming if you want. Engagement is the whole point of blogging. I can sit in my office, getting high and thinking deep thoughts, all on my own. If I’m posting it’s because I want to have a conversation.

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