KAPOW!!!

Clic

Comics are fun!

Originally I tried to give Sunweaver the benefit of the doubt and keep my article to the broader issues at hand instead of focusing on her personal beliefs, curious as I found them. Look, I talk to Catholic spiders. I’m not really one to judge the eccentricity of another’s religion. But seeing the conversation she’s having with Ruadhán … wow.

I was going to write a follow-up piece. But you know what? I think I’ll let Ashely Moore handle this one:

oh come on sannion, marvel is an excellent source for divine rights and sacred understandings. and heroic figures of DIVINE measure.

i mean come on, look at loki! he channeled with his groin the sacred golden beach lizard. look at these stats here:
green spandex? check.
golden lizard speedo? check.
horny hat of horny? check.
plot holes and spelling errors? check.
no anatomical understanding? check.
come on now, heroics are ALWAYS measured in your lack of anatomical structure and poor story arching, where have YOU been sannion?

these are clearly glorious portrayals and accurate representations of holy and heroic figures.

because remember, when loki is bored he torments fish:

remember that one time when sacred green mighty hulk defeated loki at the bridge OF ALL KNOWLEDGE?

we learned so much as a people that day. how to be green…and fly…and hulk..and smash! good lessons indeed.

remember when zeus was the backdrop drummer in KISS when no one was looking:

i know i do, them be some sacred understandings there.

dionysos floats around in the marvel universe too. just sayin’

remember when odin had battle shorts and stood in all KINDS of hardcore positions?

i know i do.

and of course, who could forget the sacred phallic rights of batman, superman and there BOY COMPANION:

and last but certainly not least, when the joker fought his own shortcomings and erectial disfunction:

guys,…guys. i have so many of these guys. i collect this absurdity because it is so ridiculous. this is representation of heroics in a hellenistic mind? WHOA you ruined me for the night sannion. ruined.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/4ea602a2f274e252b94aaaf4a7755c70/tumblr_mk3hfyKZbl1s0wl2xo1_1280.jpg

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58 thoughts on “KAPOW!!!

  1. Ashley Moore

    anytime you want more batshit comic panels, you let me know sannion. i got em stored away for good use just like my inappropriate pikachu collection. :D

    and theres a typo i noticed, lol. erectile dysfunction*

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    • I got a trove of them myself.

      Funny thing is, I’m a huge comics fan (or was until Garth Ennis kind of ruined it for me) and I have actually gotten legitimate spiritual guidance through them.

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      • Ashley Moore

        wonderful. :D

        oh of course yeah, any work of art has the potential for a bit of divine knowledge to alot (depending on the person and there soul), i am ALL FOR THAT, enthralled with it infact. art does this and the gods and spirits can use it as well which i think is crucial. so its a wonderful experience i think, a wholly important one at that. i have tons of examples myself personally, both comics and every media otherwise. i am a painter, sculptor, (tons of other long list of shit) and a musician/singer/poet/songwriter, so i am ALL for it and all over the place myself.

        seriously sannion, read Kabuki: Metamorphosis by david mack, i think you’ll appreciate its subject matter. its rather glorious and he painted it all himself (the art alone is rather beautiful and then scrolly madness poetry happens, AND THEN the story happens)

        we need some good art in here to go along with the good comments.

        pretties!! but i love watercolor itself and mixed media…so i have a soft spot for the madness it takes to use a medium like watercolor and then throw in stuff at random. i’ve already set paintings on fire because of friction and inappropriate art medium concoctions, true story. don’t use a blow drier to dry off 3 mediums at once. you can literally tell your professors you have no homework because it burnt down; bring in the ashes.

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  2. Also, have either of you seen Superdickery.com or the Stupid Comics archive http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupidcovers/index.html ?

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    • Ashley Moore

      YES!! i was totally waiting to have a chance to post that. :D

      i am so happy others know of it, its a glorious find.

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      • There was a brief period where sites that’ve been around forever, like Mr Kitty’s Stupid Comics archive and the (unfortunately retired) Inexplicable Object of the Week were a big reason for me getting up in the morning and facing the world. Dead serious.

        That doesn’t mean they’re the same thing as the cult of Orion or even Marc Bolan. Especially cos I was still all “I’m spooky, hail Satan! Hail Uncle Anton!” at that time.

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    • I think superdickery got hacked a while back and nefarious things would happen when you visited, so i stopped. might have fixed that since.

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      • I hadn’t heard of that, but it kind of makes sense that Superdickery was having Internal Server Errors every time I tried checking the other day.

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      • Ashley Moore

        that may explain the weird shit going on with that site a while back last i looked at it.

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  3. i think sunweaver is an interesting, pious and lovely person. RJ went directly to ‘you must not be Real Authentic Polytheist’ because obviously anyone who has ideas we don’t like is less a hellene than thou.
    so tired of the hellenic community taking snarky potshots at each other instead of saying ‘huh. i don’t see it that way.’
    @@
    khairete
    suz

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    • Yes, cos acknowledging a difference between historic hero cultus and superhero comics is TOTES the same as a difference of opinion. Totes. Cos everything is whatever you want it to be.

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    • i think sunweaver is an interesting, pious and lovely person.

      I don’t believe anyone is questioning that.

      RJ went directly to ‘you must not be Real Authentic Polytheist’ because obviously anyone who has ideas we don’t like is less a hellene than thou.

      With a lot of issues, even the majority of them, there is room for difference and divergence. But on this one, I’m sorry, but your friend is flat out wrong and deserves to be called on that.

      She is suggesting that ancient heroes were just as imaginary as Peter Parker and Co. That would be bad enough if she simply stated that as her own opinion, but she actually suggests that this was the view of the ancients as well. And she does this on a large public interfaith forum. We have a hard enough time with people giving us flak because we worship more gods than they do, gods that they consider nothing more than invisible friends. And here she is giving them ammunition. Furthermore, when you deny the objective reality of the gods and spirits, make it just about whatever is in your head, with no core of tradition to counteract that, you open yourself up to some very bad shit. Look at what’s going on with the Lokean Tumblr Wives.

      so tired of the hellenic community taking snarky potshots at each other instead of saying ‘huh. i don’t see it that way.’

      Originally I did try to take the high ground here. Read my post again. There are almost no personal jibes against her. (Except maybe the make believe comment.) This is a matter of issues, not people.

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      • She is suggesting that ancient heroes were just as imaginary as Peter Parker and Co. That would be bad enough if she simply stated that as her own opinion, but she actually suggests that this was the view of the ancients as well. And she does this on a large public interfaith forum. We have a hard enough time with people giving us flak because we worship more gods than they do, gods that they consider nothing more than invisible friends. And here she is giving them ammunition. Furthermore, when you deny the objective reality of the gods and spirits, make it just about whatever is in your head, with no core of tradition to counteract that, you open yourself up to some very bad shit.

        This is a matter of issues, not people.

        Nail on the head. Seriously, even before the remake hit the news, if I had one more person referencing Harryhausen’s Clash of the Titans when I shared that I was HP with them, I was going to start squeezing necks until heads popped off. It’s just sword-n-sandal flicks, children’s books of fairy stories, and comic books to most people. And this allegedly “pious” woman claiming to be a “Hellenic polytheist” is sitting there and joyously agreeing. Hesiod and Homer and on the same Shuster/Siegel and Stan Lee, to her, and the tombs of the heroes are no more real than a prop from the Iron Man film with a certificate of authenticity.

        I’ve got no problem with people practising whatever religion they choose to, even if it’s completely something they just made up last week in some kind of personal Barney Stimson-like challenge; hell, their pantheon can be the characters from How I Met Your Mother, for all I care. But when that’s implicitly (near-explicitly) put on the same level as something that just barely survived Christianity and is enjoying a renaissance, something that was legally and in no uuncertain terms regarded as criminal activity in its indigenous land for centuries, until barely more than five years ago, and still poses a risk of getting people in that land fired in spite of EU protections….

        No. Just, no. It’s not the same thing.

        Maybe the one worshipping comic books gets some of the same personal spiritual and quasi-spiritual benefits that others get from the ancient religion, but you know, I prefer to get my Vitamin C from cranberry juice rather than orange juice — and those two fruit juices aren’t the same thing, either, not by a long shot.

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        • And because this involves formally mortals, it’s about ancestor stuff for me, speaking up on behalf of the dead. This stuff is real, and it doesn’t get more real than honoring the dead. It’s through the dead that we reach to the gods. It’s what roots us in our traditions. They always attack the cult of the dead first. Christians did it to pagans and then Protestants turned around and did it to the Catholics.

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          • Galina

            Exactly, Sannion. Moreover, the cult of the dead isn’t about ‘those ancestors over there, separated from us from waaaaay back when” and us here and now. The ancestors ARE here and now. It’s to abstract, or metaphorical but very, very concrete, every day praxis. It’s important that there not be this disconnect between the living and the dead, but that the two be fused in praxis…i think, though i know i’m articulating it poorly, that from this lineage is born and lineage is a living, breathing thing.

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            • I think you’re explaining it well. And I’d add that with the cult of heroes you’ve also got that element of excellence. Humanity at it’s most extreme. We need to see that, we need to be around that, have contact with it in order to awaken our own hunger for excellence. Sort of an extension of the law of contagion – and I’m sorry, I know this is all dogmatic and shit, but you just can’t get that from imaginary creatures. And I’m not knocking the power of art – Jesus, I’m a writer and a magician. I wouldn’t do that. Plus, one of my spirits has taught me important things through Pinocchio, Frankenstein’s monster and yes, even Spider-Man. But there was a real being behind there. What she’s proposing is honoring the mask instead of the actor. I can’t even call that worship, because who is the recipient of it when there’s no one there? At least with masturbation you’re there to get yourself off. This seems even more disconnected from the world.

              Oh well. If that’s what she wants to do, what business is it of mine? I’ve voiced my objections, got people to think about the issue – and particularly to think about the heroes and what makes one. I’ve done my job.

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              • Ashley Moore

                the art isn’t the problem, its the rape.

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          • Exactly. It doesn’t get more real than the cult of the dead.

            And I grew up Catholic. While I know now that many Catholic Saints –though by no means all of them– are basically pagan deities mortalised and repurposed, in Catholic thinking, it’s really not that far removed a concept from the heros cult of the Greco-Roman world. Hell, many churches and cathedrals all over Europe still purport to house the remains of various saints. Hell, there’s still a church (four times rebuilt) in Palestine, purporting to house the remains of St. George. A Bascillica in Rome still claims to inter the remains of St. Valentine. While I doubt the literal history of those Saints, to a truly devout Catholic, it’s true, and even to those more relaxed, even if the mythology of those Saints is more symbolic than literal, the Saint was still more real than The X Men, and that is just as important os the meaning in the mythology of said Saints.

            If it’s rude to tell a Catholic that their saints are no more real than drawings on the pulp pages of a sixty year old comic book, then why can’t pagans accept that iota of etiquette amongst eachother? Furthermore, considering the conservative Christian lean all over the rest of Patheos, I doubt that attempting to “school” Catholics on such a notion would be tolerated for long.

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          • Ashley Moore

            ::applaudes::

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      • i disagree that she made blanket statements about the greek heroes and really disagree that this somehow translates into blanket statements about the gods and spirits. she simply offered a perspective, one which many disagree with, that fictional characters who embody certain aspects of arete can have a place in one’s personal view of hero worship.
        she’s also pretty clear that she’s not a recon.
        all of the assumptions and extrapolations are just that. it’s putting words she never said in her mouth.
        and to take it further into what polytheists who are not recons must and must not do vis-a-vis hero tombs and the cult of the dead is just looking for issues with which to take issue. hell, we don’t even know where odysseus’s ithaka is, let alone his bones.
        i don’t worship heroes, but i do pay a degree of kleos (not timai)-flavored cultus to some favies like theseus. his place of burial has no part in my worship, and i AM a recon.
        who doesn’t like comics, but does weave fictional characters into my spiritual practice. you’d be surprised how alive some shakespeare inventions are. gods? of course not. and sunweaver didn’t try to make any such silly claim.
        when i see stuff like this i think maybe the people who have spat at me over the years are right, that i ain’t part of this religion, not the way it gets spun on teh webz. i can think of 2 dozen flaming assholes without even trying, people who have earned all manner of derision and scorn and denigration heaped upon their heads. why y’all feel the need to go all titanesque on a nice gal who sincerely loves and worships the gods, is public about her faith, works hard in her career as a scientist, is raising two lovely girls in hellenic polytheism, and has the temerity to share a few of her wackier NON-RECON views just makes me sad and discouraged.
        if you must rip her up, can you at least talk to her first? like, ask her what she means, and if it’s what you are asserting she means?
        actually have a discussion, not a dissection?
        khairete
        suz

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        • suz, hon, gods know i love ya and it’s a virtue to side with friends – but you’re being kind of obtuse here. go back and read her piece again. over and over again she makes statements like And they are no more or less real than the figures from Homer and Hesiod. secondly, and more importantly, the moral principles of the cosmos do not change in accordance with our beliefs or strictness of adherence to them. does that mean it’s permissible for me to go into a mosque, tear apart a qu’ran, take a steaming crap on it, jerk off over it for good measure and then claim that this is an offering worthy of allah? no. hell no, that’s not okay. so why do people think that they can throw out everything that was fundamental to ancient classical religion just because they don’t attach a certain label to themselves? you don’t have to believe in miasma for it to cling to you. and i love how we’re always encouraged to be tolerant and respectful of other people’s beliefs – well when the hell is anyone going to show a modicum of consideration for mine? namely that the divinities are real and proper worship of them is the proper thing to do. when did that become so radical a concept? and yet more and more paganism is becoming antithetical even outright opposed to such a notion. when did i, the afro-italian catholic spider-worshiping dionysian become the hardliner? and please, show me where people have made it personal? no one is slandering this woman, attacking her personal character, life choices or anything else about her – except that she thinks there’s no difference between heroes and superheroes. if someone is making ad hominems i’ll chastise them because that shit ain’t cool. but if you don’t want your theology criticized don’t put it out there on a public blog, especially not one like patheos that is focused on interfaith dialogue.

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          • sweetie, no one is disrespecting your beliefs. i’d not stand by and let that happen, ever. she never said anything close to claiming that the divinities aren’t real, or that we shouldn’t worship them properly. i’d not stand for that either.
            i just can’t fathom the anger necessary to leap from ‘fictional superheroes embody arete and i worship them in my practice’ to steaming craps on the quran. and i don’t want to try.
            i will respectfully withdraw from the glee and the hyperbole, and go back to making my thargelos.
            but i’m a sad panda.
            khairete
            suz

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            • I see that we’re both focusing on the things we want to in what she wrote and ignoring everything else. That’s bound to lead to disagreement, which is fine since there’s no need for us to come to consensus on this.

              We are 100% in agreement that doing ritual stuffs takes precedence over interwebs dramas. A fine Thargelia to you and pelt that scapegoat but good. ;)

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        • Ashley Moore

          as for me, i am using excessive sarcasm to not only discuss at length my nausea at something like what i see so rampant in marvel towards the gods and goddesses but to someone claiming that since something is old it doesn’t matter to compare it to something thats fake. to venerate these fake beings in this way, and to diminish gods into comic fodder is to diminish what truly deserves veneration and muddies everything in the process, polytheism doesn’t always have to be ‘serious business’ but it certainly isn’t ‘clobbering time’. reread all these posts. there are very spot on and you are acting like she is being insulted as THE WORST PERSON EVER. which no one said, namely there are mistakes being made, and you know what? she doesn’t have to give a fuck, you know. its not the end of the fucking world like you make it out to be. she can be an amazing person all she wants, but it doesn’t change the reality that this very behavior is what gives any form of polytheism a laughable name and really is disrespectful to true heroics in a classical understanding. there are many inherent flaws in a philosophy like what she posted, if i were her and heard all of this i would certainly question myself in an objective way, especially seeing how other gods and goddesses are used by these very same writers who i venerated not to long ago. but then again, i like being challenged, its how you learn and grow afterall! and even though i am using really over the top sarcasm and ridiculousness, i think it speaks to exactly what i wish to point out.

          see you can say on and on she’s just a lovely person and mention the children and all, but you know whats not lovely? appropriating ayurveda traditions and correlating hindu gods to give to your imaginary hero worship as an offering while completely ignoring the real traditions behind such food offerings. yeah…thats lovely isn’t it? its a living tradition and using curry in such an inappropriate way is downright ignorant and just proving that this girl has no CLUE as to what she’s doing. you know whats also ignorant? every other aspect of this; ignorant does not been HORRIBLE it means lacking in education, its not even really that bad just that theres room to GROW as an individual and to learn from any insults or mistakes that may or may not have been intended. sometimes sarcasm and humor can work as a good tool for learning. i will not speak for anyone else in this regard, but i am sorry you feel bullied by internet stupids, as they are tons of them. the faceless aspect on the internet has given individuals agency to be horrible to what in reallife they would never have the balls to say. try not to be oversensitive, as there is a difference to flaming and constructive criticism. i suggest meeting people in person and just get the fuck off the internet, because most of the time it is just stupids. i know i do as often as i can until i feel its time to say shit. ::shrugs:: its weird your now questioning what you are spiritually, while healthy its weird its put in comparison to others. do you judge what you believe on what your soul calls you towards or how you get along with people who use words and titles? think about it.

          oh i do take offense when people start tossing around MLK in casual conversation to prove there legitimacy at knowing what good people are. it inherently rubs anyone the wrong way who is already offended by someone thinking iron man is the same as odysseus.

          she means precisely what she says, otherwise she wouldn’t have said….thats called language. and having you complain that you don’t like random asshole five who hurt your feelings a while ago doesn’t discredit all the points being brought up which are anything but flaming and quite important, if for no other reason then to galvanize someones personal beliefs. she can have all her own perspective she wants, but recon or not its not hellenic and makes no sense.

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          • Yeah. People are just disagreeing here. Anyone starts arguing that she isn’t entitled to her wrong beliefs or deserves some kind of violent retaliation because of them would be crossing a line and I’d go after them like a Fury. But that hasn’t happened and from what I can gather about the folks talking the most in this debate isn’t even remotely in danger of happening. We’re just talking here. Passionately, yes. But what should we be passionate about, if not religion?

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            • Ashley Moore

              i wholeheartedly concur.

              if anything, violence and threats would just be a bonkers response. just bonkers and i use that word so seldom.

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            • It’s a sad thing when the pagan community can no longer tell the difference between passionate disagreement about theology –respectful, but passionate disagreement, nonetheless– and the Spanish Inquisition. It’s sad, but I don’t think it’s irreparable. Maybe offline worship groups could help buffer this; community seems to have that effect on people, more often than not.

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              • Ashley Moore

                oh ruadhan, why are you setting me up to yell:
                BUT NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!

                ANYWHO, real face to face interactions also alters ones perceptions because one can hear a voice and see a face behind the constructive criticism and well thought out jokes that would otherwise be lost.

                i know i have been told i don’t translate very well through typeface and i’d imagine this is true for ANYONE else as well. i always keep that in mind when reading anything on the internet, but again since nearly everything is done over the internet now, this is probably why this is such an issue.

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        • Well, first off, not only DID she very clearly make the “blanket statements” you say she did not, there’s a HUGE difference between what I did criticise and what you say I criticise. I never made it truly personal –maybe you disagree, but whether or not someone personally identifies with the label of “recon” is irrelevant, cos when someone identifies themselves as “Hellenic Polytheist”, that still means something, more than the faintest modicum of reverence for the ancient ways is implied, and facts aren’t glossed over or repainted because it’s more convenient. The facts about the hero cult are not what she very clearly claimed they were. I’m sure she’s a lovely person, I don’t know her from Galatea –but her fact-checking is horrible. She’s welcome to worship what- and Whoever she sees fit to, but if it’s going to deviate that far from established Hellenic polytheist practise, she owes it to her audience to clarify that.

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          • Yeah, I mean as far these things go this one has been fairly civil and intelligent, especially the posts I collected in the other post. considering the nasty shit that’s been lobbed at me … this is real tame.

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            • Be fair, dear satyr –compared to the nasty shit that’s been lobbed at you, the nasty shit that’s been lobbed at both your girlfriends, and myself, combined, is practically constructive. I think the only other quasi-recon pagan I’ve personally interacted with (though to a much more limited extent) who gets more nasty shit lobbed at them over their practise, beliefs, and completely unrelated shit they’ve said is Raven Kaldera.

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  4. AND she’s been courteous!
    the horror!
    khairete
    suz

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    • Galina

      That was courteous? Wow.

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    • Ashley Moore

      as an aside, it doesn’t matter how nice, courteous, pious or polite someone is. something wrong is something wrong. plain and simple.

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      • Very true. This is why the Geek Feminism wiki rightly describes the tone argument as a fallacy. A statement of fact is either true or false, regardless of the alleged tone taken in saying it (and in text-based communiqué, most of the tone is either inferred via subtle or misunderstood language, or it’s a product of the reader’s imagination, often a combination of both). While no-one has doubted the benefits of being nice, courteousness alone doesn’t necessarily reflect the truth behind the statement.

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        • Ashley Moore

          totally agreed. i think its a dangerous correlation to automatically assume that niceness=rightness.

          that could lead into extremely bad circumstances in any facet of life is you start breaking it down. there are plenty of beautiful plants and even more so beautiful flowers that will kill you in gruesome ways. (not to get into how many people automatically correlate beauty to rightness as well, i know i may have opened a pandoras box here)

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          • So, if Pandora was, by some arguments, the original femme fatale, does that mean drag queens who do a Joan Collins impersonation are tapping into that ancient force through sacred acts of theatre? Is Joey Arias closer to the gods than most?

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  5. I can’t say I’m entirely comfortable with people beginning to conflate “hero worship” (or just plain worship) with what is called fandom. Fandom is about being a fan of things, not worship (even if it looks that way sometimes). When I see people taking fandom-ish behaviors into religion it’s not only highly noticeable but completely awkward to look at.

    (Not to mention what is called “mythological fanfic” or “mythological fandom” is definitely NOT religion or spirituality, even though people who are pagans or polytheists may write it. The attitude towards the gods are entirely different.)

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    • I got three words for you: Lokean Tumblr Wives.

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      • Oh god don’t worry I know it well. I’ve deliberately tried avoiding the pagan communities on Tumblr (unless I’m in a masochistic mood and I desire to know what people are kvetching about) because it is SUCH a clusterfuck. A friend of mine has been partially doxxed and basically forced into hiding on a new blog by people in that community because she dared disagree with them. Fuck that.

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  6. Shadow of Ideas

    Something that seems to be missing here is the acknowledgement of the (real) people that actually created the super heroes. Sure, Captain America might have inspired you (well, not you) but, really, it was the people behind the scenes that drew him and wrote him that were the source of inspiration. Captain America was simply the medium through which they conveyed their ideas. If anything it’s these folk that deserve any recognition bestowed on their creations. I’m not sure if anyone else sees the relevance to this in terms of Hero worship but I figured I’d mention this anyway.

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    • No, I think you’re really onto something with that. I’d have no problem, AT ALL, and actually think it’d be a really cool idea to honor the creators of those superheroes who these people clearly feel are responsible for teaching them about piety and virtue — rather than the creations. I mean, in ancient Greece there were hero-cults for poets, philosophers, soldiers, kings, athletes, prostitutes, suicidal teenagers: many kinds of heroes, and always more to be discovered. But no body, no hero.

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    • Which is precisely why I honour Alan Moore and Warren Ellis, not V or Spider Jerusalem. Plus, seriously now, Alan Moore is the closest thing to a true pagan celebrity the United Kingdom has produced. —gotta represent, yo. That said, Moore has claimed his primary deity as Glycon, Who he both regards as “a great hoax” (Lucian described the cult of Glycon as nothing more than a literal Cult of Sock Puppet), yet dismisses that “hoax” as irrelevant. He certainly has a pantheistic view of deity, and an avowed belief that imagination is just as real as reality, but he also clearly practises the discernment of regarding deities as deities, mortals as mortals, and characters as characters. And he’s fiercely critical of the films derived from his work, to the point of insisting his name be removed from (almost?) all of them, especially the V for Vendetta film (which he’s called “a Bush-era parable by people too timid to set a political satire in their own country”, and has even refused royalties for). For Moore, a work of a truly creative mind isn’t just something to treat casually as any other fluff piece that can only be improved upon with adaptations and derivative works, but something that should stand on its own for what it is.

      Which seems the obvious answer for resolving potential conflict met with the notion of Glycon as “a great hoax” while regarding Glycon as one’s primary deity — it’s a great hoax created to be deified, not a character in a comic created to illustrate that the logical extreme of anarchy isn’t the solution to the logical extremes of fascism. I’m willing to admit that may not be how Moore himself sees it, I might even question some things if I ever come across his own words that may suggest he encourages deification of his characters as he wrote them, but for me, Moore is the one with heros potential, AND that potential seems more in-line with the pattern of ancient Hellenic hero cult than the modern deification of comic book characters. My beliefs, which I’ve had for years, just coincidentally fit well to pattern previously established thousands of years ago.

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  7. Kauko

    Does this mean I have to take down my altars to Gandalf and Harry Potter??? *smirk*

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    • hey, if someone wants to keep a shrine to gandalf and harry — more power to them!

      and i’m free to do this:

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      • Kauko

        I seriously don’t have such altars for realz, though, cause Gandalf and Harry Potter aren’t real and what would be the point of giving cultus to something that doesn’t exist?

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        • Ashley Moore

          because voldemort will come for you if you don’t?..and take your nose.

          kauko, you know better then to tempt he who shall not be named…or nosed.

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  8. Pingback: The “Get your fandom out of my religion” debate continues | The House of Vines

  9. The line that did it for me was this:
    “But giving your spiritual props to a historical person doesn’t mean you can’t also worship the ideals of patriotism, integrity, justice, and bravery that we embody in our superheroes. And they are no more or less real than the figures from Homer and Hesiod.”

    Dike (goddess of Justice)
    Hellen (mythical progenitor of the Greeks. In the US, we’ve always looked to Columbia–http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(personification), or to Libertas, the wife of Liber–http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty)
    Aleithia (Truth/Integrity)
    Arete (Bravery/Valor/Excellence)

    These are the Fantastic Four, apparently.

    Sunweaver also talks about the mythic qualities of MLK or Abe Lincoln. She doesn’t seem to see (or care about) the difference between knowing that Washington never actually chopped down a cherry tree vs. Tony Stark not being a real person (and never having been one).

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    • Ashley Moore

      what just wrecked me was the food offering. lets appropriate ayurvedic traditions that correlate to hindu deities (incorrectly i might add) for our batshit hulk offering and claim its then hellenic. WHOA. headspin friend, head. spin.

      its so much disrespect i can only make noises after a little while.

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      • Wow, I didn’t even get that far.

        Fuck white people, seriously. I mean, seriously now, while it’s no secret that Hellenes in the BCE were appropriative as hell by Tumblr SJW standards, there was also a tendency to “Hellenise” the adopted deity or practise, which is thoroughly integrating it into Hellenic custom, and making it culturally relevant to Hellenes, deities were often even given a mythology that reflected this, and it was rarely just taken directly from it’s culture of origin, given a new name, and called “Hellenic”. It seems like an easy argument to make that the Kemetic Aset is distinct from the Greco-Roman understanding of Isis, even though by the time Her mysteries permeated the Greco-Roman world, Her mythology still reflected an Egyptian origin.

        This isn’t a people going “hey, I like this Goddess and I’m Hellenic, therefore any Goddess I worship is, too!” This is a people going, “hey, there’s something about this Goddess that is unlike those of our native lands; how does She fill this void? How can we honour Her as She is while still illuminating Her importance to our people?” What you described certainly seems more the former than the latter.

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        • Ashley Moore

          its at the very bottom of the original post with a recipe. my brain exploded. the noises i made terrified my poor dog.

          precisely. theres a long list of different terms to imply different ways cultures can be appreciated and shared WITHOUT being appropriative. i need to find those words again. and no mention to any hindu gods or ayurvedic tradition (the importance of pepper ALONE not even mentioning ANY of the doshas) just bruce banner went to india so i made curry as an offering! whoa.. not even proper mixtures. the curry powder itself changes drastically from region to region and what gods correlate as a result (its always at LEAST 6 spices to up to 20 different complex spices, in antiquity it even had shit that was poisonous too), no respect given not even any acknowledgement. i could just go on forever and i guess i don’t need to. because then the incredible hulk came in and for just a moment…i thought this was a satire. i had to reread what sannion linked to like 5 times to make CERTAIN it wasn’t satire. it flips me out because paganism is just full of appropriation to this degree to hinduism and there were just so many things about this that flipped me out so badly that sarcastic madness needed NEEDED to happen to make my brain work.

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  10. Because.

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  11. Pingback: My Writings On The Tetrad Group Are Not Fanfic, BUT…!; and Related Issues | Aedicula Antinoi: A Small Shrine of Antinous

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